Sounder SIGN UP FOR FREE

The INCI List

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode Alessandra De Gregorio from certified organic beauty brand Terre Verdi talks to Karen from Blomma Beauty about organic beauty. 

Find out:

- The difference between organic and certified organic beauty products

- What to spot on the product labels to know you're buying organic 

- What's involved in the certification process

- The benefits of buying certified organic beauty products

- What the organic percentages on your beauty products really mean

And welcome to ou another episade ofthe conscious collector, a pok astletic by the founders ofsap and Skin Arabiaand summer and myseut Caron, I'm the founder of Blon Beauti, and we startedthis procest to shine alight on our favorite topics from the consciousbeauty in well being industries in this episade were debanking one of theessentual components of understanding what'sin our beauty products, theingeist. It's an acronom that' bandied about a lot, so we wanted to Delldeeper into what it is and how it ill help us when shopping the beathproducts, hello, rabion summer, H, like Mer own, I ob OI summer, but when I was first getting into natural Organicgeti, I didn't reallyknow even what inkie stood for O wh, I didn't even know inkiand. I remember in the early days of actually juststarting the brand I actually used to pronounce it. I N CI andpeople used togive me very funny, looks thinking what is she talk talking by? But yes, it's UH. I aid only young one,Dad ICULD Oeo Ave, a mouthas, its the international nomenclature of cosmassicingredients. I hope I pronounce that very well said Karen at EAS. You canhave attempted that no is his fancy way of saying,basically a system of name things m. It uses a lot in in science. So e me as aretaler, not so familiar new, as formulators may be more familiar ofmale yeah. It's it's essentially. I guess the best thing about the Inkeylisis the standardization. Like you said it just transcends language barriers sowhereby allbrands have to itemize every single ingredient intheir formulations, R by a scandard set of names, usually Latin derived namesor I get scientific names. So it's great to identify it o. If you'resetting across the EU everybody's got the same set of ingredient names, soit's easy to figure out. I think the plant ingredients it's the Latin nameand then for empastic ingredients as the chemical nenglish and even thelaxnam natural poducts, consounds chemical. So I think maybe touch upon that aalittle bit later, but it's HR. It's a bit. I have a Mindfield when you firststart reading the fact of products it is- and I guess it's one of thosethings. 'cause, I remember when we first launched him. Obviously we are abrand that only uses natural ingredients and obviously we would haveblisted the inky names at the back of our packaging and I remember a lot ofconsumers in the early days that we were meeting would sort of say: Ohyou're, sying natural, but you've got what is all the? What are all theseproducts on the back of your and obviously they were consumers drivingtowards trying to make a more conscious beauty choice but werent to wear oofvzsome of the regulations surrounding that. So it's about trying to educatepeople that, yes, you know these words sound very synthetic, but they are justLatin names of a very natural ingredient or a very natural component.Yeah. I think as well Um I mean we obviously talk about, there's quite alot being in the businessbt. I didn't know when I first started looking thatit's listed highest concentration to lowess concentration of ingredients, and so I a thing that kind of guided me whenswitching to National Ganibuthe was looking at the first five ingredients. I read that somewhere, whether that's aharden bath rule, but for me it really helped is to look at the first five andthen you know what those key ingredients are in there. Is that howyou guys approach formulating, knowing that the strongest ingredients in theirtop five or do you think about it in a...

...different way? No, we definitely do sowhen we actually create our formulas, and we present our formulas to a safetyassessor, obviously they're the first ones that are going to point out whele.Actually, this is in this. Percentageo is in this percentage and w a lot ofpeople don't realize. I think I think more people are becoming aware. Now isone of the things we often used to get told was: Oh there's not much slellingyour product or theres, there's not much fravrance coming through andactually we've got. This is also anisue on theanculist, quite rightly sothat we have to remain within certain percentages of th of these items andthey are, they are listed there not only for transparenty, but actuallysafety as well yellen. So when we tse safety as are otmost, so when weformulate and what we put in as the TALP is really to insure, our prouct isnot only a fantastic quality, but it's also its efficacy is his utmost andthen also the way it works just just kind of making sure it does what itSais on the ten yeah. But I think just to clarify that a bit further. Justfrom the reading I have done round theyankee an you, obviously have that as your ethosto have safe formulations that are a e requirement to be safety, assassed andB, if you', maybe in another country where the rules aren't quite rickd onamatic regulations, theinkeylist won't actually tell you and the safety of theingredient, it literally jest as a system for telling you thoseingredients in a lobly recognized way. Is I dos and I don't think necessarythat Ouranky list tells you the Safity afe ingredients Eitersai, for example,many escential oils, which ere listed below one percent, or indeed otheringredients, will not necessarily have to be listed in any particular order.No then I an Ordero for us is a brand itsound. It's our obligation to betransparent about those things. So in many ways we need to present thatinformation as extra on our packaging or are labeling or any other mediumthat we basically put out there, which reflects what we as a round Ar, I think thfor listners is reallyimportant to know is that whilst the incuis fantastic for knowing theingredients and that's often where people start, when they're switching toconscious beauty, yo now tecting the ingredients, you also needs to run thatunparallel with understanding the brand, the ethics behind the brand. How that'smade how it's formulated? So I mean you guys are quite transparent about all ofthat which fantastic n mea the Reatai. I always may just askquestions of the brand or we ermed like Asas on our website, a filerl if youdon have tons because it's a fantastic resource, but it doesn't paint thewhole picture. No, never and again, there are ways around it as well. So,for example, what we came across was obviously we don't use any syntheticfragrance in the new of our formulations. They're all essential oilblends that we've specially sort of herbs blended ourselves m. But what wealso came across was t that you can actuall n a lot of black brands. Youknow, there's the term fragrance and parfarm that you will n sometimes welloften, you will find in a lot of mainstream products at the bottom ofthe inky list or somewhere middle of the road on the inky list, and that'susually something that can mean one of two things: either it'sa closely guarded secret and it could be something as simple as a signatureblend of essential oils that the brand has spent a lot of time and moneydeveloping and they want to keep it as...

...a cosely guarded secret cause. It'stheir bespoke scent or it could mean a whole host of other issues like it is asymphetic pragrant fragrance and there are symthetic components that comprisethat fragrance. And that's when these allergies and alligens are more of anissue when they're hiding under a term like fragrance or parfarm, because youcan have unidentified components that can cause all sorts of health issuesthan aret being disclosed and are being hidden under this umbrella term. Ithink him to go back to the natural side ofthings. What you mention, the Tatit they do it they list profermalfragrance tease, would h hide their special recpe. If you like. I didn'tactually know that for quite some time- and I was actuallyspeaking with the brands- and I really liked whan, I ate efesy in the Mazai,just can't get on board with the fact that you say Possum, because I'd alwaysbeen taught that, like you said this semthastic ones in it can be up to likefour hundred ingredients in thes palh arm. Here S D, You don't know what they are andand then she ha educated me and told me about how it sh- and she even revealedto me every single oit wasn' hat blend but she's like four competitors for mycustomers and don't want to reveal it because that's the secret to the BratInang, the branch. It's not amazing, and it s Rond repotivebut, Um Yeah. Itwas an education for me because I'd always felt. I have quite a Min malest approach. I like very simpleformulations, not too many ingredients and to half I'm offering it alwaysterrified me, and I abecause you just don't made the number of ingredientswithan last yeah wod, which heaskmariatt no it's Absol, and I meanI guess it's one of those things that we as a brand made a conscious decisionnot to do the same thing. 'cause we have actually our essential oil blandshave been very, have been Um, especially blended on our behalf, sowe've literally gone to Um an aromotherapist blending, um sort ofplaces somewhere up north whor. We sat down and we actually worked with themto create arbespokeer blends and again we had that same option. Didn't wesummer. Do you want to list it as Parfarm? Or do you want to list asindividual components and we actually, it would have been easier for us tohave listed it as Pafon, but we made a very conscious decision to actuallylist them individually because we wanted to be as transparent as possible.We did not want to hide anything from our consumers. We wanted to say Yep.These are the blands. This is what's in your blend, we're not hiding that, eventhough I remember initially, we I mean our the people who we were working withthe blending company that we were working wit did actually suggest justput it down as proform USIC invested so much in creating these blands. It makessense for you to just you know, take ownership of that, but that was something that somewhern.I decided. No, it's goes again our brands ethouce and we want to be verytransparent in terms of what's in there, and I know I think what people don'trealize, as if Youv ever blended, your own sensial Oili, very, very difficultto get the scent down to a tea. So even if your individual components arelisted wethem in any order, it's going to be very, very difficult, very maindifferent greeds of essential oil, my goodness they all smell so different.So good luck and if you want to try it alos, no, he eparted secret over the CA. MEAALOOK! There's there is a there's, also a massive stigma attached to the wordPassonyo, and I think our industry has...

...tried whether you're, conscious or notto just move away from that. So so now for the EU to kind of putthis to a blanket Ok on, Oh yeah, you kN W. You can write pafform, it's veryvery! It's not very satisfatory to bequinous,because it it's almost like all the hard work, all the roundwork and to Wa,moving towards th transparency. Moving towards being honest, is, is almos kindof being washed away. Alhis Raba, you said it was harder work and list outyour formulation, Ann M, father than Nes paperbut, actually for the consumer.Oh absolutely jeesier, absolutely because they know EXAC and also helpsto ideentify a specific alligence. I don't know wedo have to list theallegens. That sort of naturally occur in a lot of theseessential oils, a in your inky list as well, but it just gives people a lotmore transparency to be able to make informed decisions because ultimatelythey are your consumers. They are the ones who are purchasing and investingin your products, so they have the right to know exactly what's in there,and it also really is quite nice in terms of itjust shows people that or your consumer, that you've got what's in your product.Have you know the range of ingredients in your products have not just been youknow randomly put together. They've been thought about. You know. You'veactually spent a lot of time and summer does our formulating it for us and shespends a vast amount of time. Ridiculous amount of time sitting thereformulating and not all the formulations make that integrade, butwhereby we go yet that's the one we're going to go with it's a really longprocess o to be transferrent and say Yeat We'e. These are the ingredientswe've. You know worked so hard and trild and tested that we've now decidedto put in this end. Product is therefor a purpose, and you can see it. You know,is transparent for the consumer to see yeah t talking seeing it though theypeople, I maybe isthing- that don't know about theinthis- is the first timethey're hearing about it. Where do we find it on onoproduct right? So you literally is I at theback of your product. You should have it it. It will be in the form of aningredients list. Basically, like you said it's listed in order of percentage,so you have the largest percentage right at the top and it will go downfrom that to Um. So you can see the first fife ingredients will constitutethe largest amount of ingredient, with the largest makeup of largestproportion of the make up of that product. Um- and I is essentially justthat it's an ingredient list with all the the inky sort of standardized namesfor the ingredients that are in the formulation I lii according to Sorryto,sorry Someogo, sorry, no, no! So the advice we were given by our safe Jutisitwas at Te. U Inculos of the Agredent, has to actually be on the product sothat it's there in front of the consumer all the time to Leng it Osinvidit in the store. It'swhat you take away with you, your arm, Itsom Bronds, have plain jars. You canhave it on a leaflet rapit that must go with you out of thestore. Now I'm getting better at this, but it's very difficult as someonewho's selling products to just have it on that one form Os. Yes, I gues,though I really like to see it where, if there's an outer box, it's on theout box, if it's on in a Jo, it's also...

...on the jar, if it has to be in a leafthat I know some higher endbranch also include beliefless, that's great, but I don't think from aperson spect o. That can be the only form, O less 'cause, only very easy toforget, and if you are trying to Prut uct for the first time you get at homeand there's maybe a reaction, you can't then very lisder, Teo Lis. What it isthat made you alutly cause lef its aether things that you end up throwingaway. You don't really keep these things with you, especially if you andeven the outer box that gets thrown away as well. So it is literally theproduct that you get left with, so it's handy to have that mavailable at alltimes absolutely without, I think, with a lot of small brands, it's quitedifficult as well and Robi. I think we went through this. It's also it's an issue of aesthetics as well. Sowe chose we had, oh, my God when we were redesigning our packaging thistime nast year, weand through so many different possibilities where she wouldput this information wish, but that as measure and we did consider putting iton the boxes m. But then obviously we found out no, it's better. You know puton the jars but there' There's a lot of information n that goes withinculis.Obviously, if you've got a very very long, one you've got to really place itwell on your product packaging and your Palit packaging is a big part of whatyou're doing you know a D. getting that right is is so important for a lot ofbrands, as is obviously having your inkulist there. So yes s, I just fputting thy end isthat we we obviously if we', we could have put it on a leaflet, but it's thecost thing for a lot of brands and it was all to the waistetages. Well, we,why have an additional sort of thing that needs to be recisled and printed?You know from a I guess, a consumption and an environmental angle. It was anideal, so it malh. I aluctl one more thing: You have to sort of ovbro outsthat you have to use which yeah and I mean- I guess, evenwhen you have say products like ous, which don't have you know, hundreds andhundreds of ingredients in them Um. Obviously, when you look at the namesthey are rather long, yes, so even Tryn to squeeze out on saya little jar. It's Um, not the easiest of tasks, and I I mean the other thingthat a lot of brands do is. They will have the Latin names and then they'llalso have the common name next to it, which is a little bit more plain,understandable English and I can't remember of the my head Bife we've donethat. No, so we just couldn't fit it on our Laana, what we decided to do as wehad the inky list of obviously the Latin names on the packaging, but thenwe've got them in English. On the website atd we disclose everything. Sothen we have them. In brackets on the website 'cause, you have a lot morespace on a website and you are confined with the size of your boxes or yourlabels, h how much you can pit in? Yes, absolutely so yeah. I think the CONSUMERI being heogestt check theingredients on the product if it matches your e souce. If there's anyalligence in there that o things were sensitive, O yow Um, but I don't thinkit tells you the quality necessarily of tee, he says rose if it could be yoknow organically farmed, Fras, oread beenreally UNOF or Ow superfine Prase hno, and I said that's, I think, where we sayjust L D brings the Brad for me, Ava Retayler, I use the inkyliss every timewe get a new brand or a new production board. So all the brands war sent astheir full ECIUS and I check through every ingredient. So there's noingredients that we don't allow M in...

...our products and and OUC for them.Yiseeand then iwl becin Il crave a little bit more, sometimes about thesorcing of the ingredient as well, and you know, for example, car oil. It'squite a hotehotgated topit, whether it's you know, sustainablest also justlook for reigorance on the brannet that they they're sourcing in an ethical way,and if not, you know, there's some brands that we don't stock the fullrange because, as particular products that we don't agree with UN at oneparticula ingredient and and it's not tosay that a a whole as a brown they're,not good an EFFECTTIV products, but it'sjust that it doesn't quite match what what we think of as as a good consciousproduct, but you know, will always work with people to make sure that they it'sit's a long processing t like the zero ways, movement just doing one small, SiAin, add up to a big thing. So T S it's not about saying! Well, we won't stopyour rand full Storp, it's about saying, okay! Well, then, let's work outtogether. When do you think you'll not formulate with this ingredient? Isthere a change that you're going to make wat kind of pray? Those questionsbet more so for me, as a redealer binculist is really important. We listit on our website. You can click through on every ingredient, tosee whatit is a bit more familiar and Wealw, even if the brand doesn'tlisten, planing Grest welist in plaining Yish as well. So that's how I us it you guys s as a braapart from including it in your products label. How? How do you usetheing s? Does it differ from that war? No, I think you're absolutely spot onUm, but I think there's a lot of owners on brands to supplement the information d that again um comes it. You can't putall of that information ofvousy on your product packaging, so your supportingmaterial needs to be pretty good, and especially if you want to be a wellknown brand, that's well known not just for its quality but for itstransparenty. Then then you're going to have to do that and we've supplementedAbawa robbor with an our website d and what we also try and do is porout toTessecial medior posts which also give indication about and where we tougt orHoart, how they kind of work and because you're right, there's there'snothing on an inky list. That will tell you the saurce one origins and thepvolitity and the Grad of the ingredients, efering eample, somethingas simple as sheer butter and in prize of sourcing that as a raw ingredientvaries drastically depending on the grade and how refined it is. You knowwhether it's organic or not. So it's you know to you. It's again, the onesison the brand to decide hat is important to them and their ethors asi think theethics is well of the product, so our arganoil. This is a perfect example ofthat in an our gallery so widely available so widely available. But, ofcourse, what we're realizing now and Rabbe. You know this from your visit toMorocco. Don't you yes, so I mean I guess it's a case of it's become likethis hot new beauty, ingredient and weve. I mean we went down to Morocca totry and source our Argan oil and sort of go to the boms and meet the peoplebehind it. We discover that not all Argenoil is actually created. Equally,it's very and it's not only the quality of it, but it's the ethics behind it.So, for example, in Morocca there is actually no government re legislationor regulation in cooperatives and a lot of argonoilers banded around saying. Ohit's from a woman's cooperative. Now here in the UK, you hear that word andyou thinking right: Women's cooperative they're getting a share of the profit.They they own part of the business. You...

...know, so they are directly benefitingfrom US buying it. But when you go out there to these, so called cooperatives,you actually discover thats lot the case Um. Essentially there is a fatArab sitting in a office high up somewhere filling and lining hispockets with overpriced argonor that the consumers are buying and the womenwho are hand milling the not aren't being paid a fair wage, an aunt by nomeans getting a share of the profit at Allit's, because it's not a regulatedindustry out there. Obviously you're looking at a developing country wherethere isn't these things in PLAC UM. So, for example, we looked really wesearched hard to find our supplier urn, who actually was very transpalent fromday one. The first thing the guy said to us was: I am not a woman'scooperative and I thought Oh wow, that's refreshing. After having visitedso many places, Fer you to actually tell me you're notacoo cooperative, andhe said I mean he rn employs six hundred burber women. Um pays him avery fair wage. We were able to verify that and then he has amazing facilities.Healthcare, childcare. You know little classrooms on side, so the women canwork and their dependents, their children, arein a safe environment andbeing looked after and he is so expensive, but it's worse than and thenin addition, obviously he setified organic. So he had all those bottonsestipped from a western angle when you dave deeper to say okay, so we canactually say yes, our ARGONORLININL Origon, it's organic and it osdefinitely ethically sourced, whereas is just so much vagueness out therewith other other oil h and misinformation yea and had we not hadthe opportunity to actually go there. We wouldn't have known, otherwise itwould have on make the EFFT. They don't do that teetting process, they justfind a sumplier by product and trusts at Deri. It is ye it's hard. It'sreally hard for smaller brands when you're starting out carrent. It's Imean there is so much choice, so much choice up there. It's very verydifficult an to know unless you have that that of initial finance, to investto be able to go to have conversations it's time consuming its money, it all. It is, and I mean, as a brandwe've not been able to take that kind of research um for every singleINCREDENTTO, no on it, because it it's just financially not viable, and wewere just fortunate that we could do it for one particular ingredient, but obviously small,independent brands. It's not an easy thing to do, and you there has to be anelement of trust. You have to be able to trust your supplye and then Yoengage that from a report. In terms of trying to understand who is you know being sincere, I mean, I think, just even that onexample from that one ingredient, the arguoil tells you that the Incias isjust one part of the story: Ioe MTO Bevi Hov, a initial part of Selvin deepr into the product, butit'sjust one fatset. So I hope that that the epised has beeninformative, but also ives. You insidt into U A M, how you can be a moreconscious consumer, Bu understanding the brand going for transparent brands,doing more watt and asking Mose questions using theanky list as yourkind of first piece of evidence into whether that product isconsciouslyproduced not absolutely yeh. I think...

...we'll round it off ter for this episodeand Lanke Man and Im, he m HEU to next time, bye.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (12)