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How To Have A More Conscious Christmas

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Karen, founder of Blomma Beauty is chatting with Sue Campbell, founder of plastic free shampoo and conditioner bars KIND2 and Georgina Wilson-Powell, founder of sustainable lifestyle digital magazine Pebble Mag about how to shop more consciously this Christmas. In light of the pandemic many people have chosen to live more sustainably, ethically and mindfully. Whether you're new to conscious living or are a firm advocate of shopping your values already, Sue and Georgina share some incredible tips on how we can reimagine Christmas to shop, eat and travel more consciously without having to minimise the joy and love spread around this time of year. 

You are listening to the conscious beauty and wellbeing podcast. I'm Karen, the founder of organic beauty and wellbeing retailer blomber beauty, and today's episode is with suit from kind to and Georgina from Pebble Mag we're talking about how to make Christmas more conscious, whether it's more sustainable, ethical, charitable or minimalist. We had a great chat about the meaning of Christmas, particularly in light of this year's pandemic, and Georgina and suit shares of fantastic tips and how you can shop one mindfully this Christmas. I hope you enjoy today. I am joined by Sue Campbell, who is the founder of kind to, which is natural, plastic free and multi award winning shampoo and condition of ours, and Georgina Wilson Powell, who is the founder and editor of Pebblemag, which is an online sustainable lifestyle magazine, and we're going to be talking about how to have a more conscious Christmas. I think after the year we've had, more and more people are seeming to be wanting to make more conscious choices, whether that's from an ethical or a sustainable standpoint. So we're coming to this conversation with lots of different perspectives, all from owning consciously minded businesses, but also we are all consumers to so hopefully there's going to be lots of takeaways from this episode on how to consider a different approach to a time of year that's regularly centered on spending and excess. So welcome to and Georgina. I thank you, Karen. You're just you. It's good to see you, to see you. Let's start with you. You have a consciously minded brand. Tell as a little bit more about kind to and and why I wanted to have such conscious credentials for your products. So come too. Is really all about trying to eliminate plastic at source. I had this brain wave that if I wanted to actually have an impact on plastic pollution, in order to do something above and beyond my own recycling, I really needed to create a brand or create an opportunity but actually could leverage. So I started kind to because I know that I can effectively eliminate a plastic bottle or two plastic bottles or three plastic bottles every single time somebody buys my products, and I really want it to be something that actually grows and becomes normal plastic free cosmetics really can be the new normal, and that's ultimately my ambition with kind to yeah, normal and just as effective. We were actually to move, of course, about how effective your products are. And did you really want to make it an easy swap, not a difficult swap? Say That people who are may be less knowledgeable about it can feel confident making a swap that still going to be just as effective at the hack ass so I think. And and it doesn't have to amount compromise. I'd actually have to say my hair is in the best condition it's ever being. So yeah, that in itself, as I guess, good enough for me. So I'm hoping it's good enough for everybody else. We are walking advert for your front. It looks gorgeous. Yeah, really, yeah, and do do it, I mean see. You and I are basic fans of Pebble Mag and it's how we came to collaborate today. But your magazine is focused on conscious, sustainable, ethical lifestyle. Talk to us about pebble and and why you felt that was so important to to start the magazine based on that. Well, I think a lot of people like myself and suit start their businesses because they feel a need that there's a need for change and the idea behind set of changing opinions and changing mindsets and moving consumers away from some overconsumption and like mindless consumption. And so I thought about starting a brand four years ago, but really my my skills line communication. I've been a magazine editor forever. You know, I've worked in magazines forever. So for me pebble was a similar in color too, sues. Like you know, it was the way to talk about how to normalize what we now know a sub conscious consumerism and talk about waste and plastic...

...waves and zero waves and all the other issues that the pebble talks about. So we cover everything to do with lifestyle, so whether that's the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the places you go, the people you talk to, and we're trying to move consumers away from, you know, just the perhaps where they've been before, which is not thinking about before and after they buy products or before and after they do things. And that she thought talk about this supply chains and talk about how we can change, what we can do and also give people a bit of what we call active hope, which we call everyday activism. On the on the website and on the magazine to empower them, because we get told so often the individual choices can't make a difference and if that was true, businesses like yourself and to wouldn't exist, they wouldn't be growing. So I think it's, you know, it's the right opposite of that. Individuals can make a real difference and we want to be able to make that as easy as possible and give them as much information as possible to make those changes. Yeah, I think it's so great that the platform like yours exist because, you know, I come at it from a retail effective shouting about all these wonderful independent brands that are doing something really lovely and conscious in the world. But you kind of bring everything together not just from a shopping perspective. It's about how you can live your life and again, it's making it easy to do so. So I think that is like small ways make big change, don't they? And I think you're absolutely being that, which is fantastic. But yeah, we're here stay talk about Christmas, which seems a little bit strange because we're recording this in October. Got To think this year everyone's really looking forward to Christmas after a year of lockdown pandemics and, you know, a bit of a dreary, a dreary year to be honest. But if we zoom out from that at the moment, historically I think Christmas is always, or it maybe in recent years been, really centered around consumption, you know, whether that's how decoradent your Christmas dinner is or how many gifts you give people or how much you spend or why? Why do you both think that is so? Why do you think people are so geared up to consume around Christmas? Yeah, I had a really good think about that and I think a lot of it is about it's an overt demonstration of something. Now, whether that overt demonstration is saying how much you know, I love you and as my family and I want to show you with gifts in order to demonstrate that love, or potentially, and overt didn't, demonstration of how successful I am, so I can buy lots of gifts and so on. And I just think it's really our society as a whole. Consumerism is just become part of what drives the economy, but also how people define themselves, and social media is probably exacerbated that. We could probably spend all afternoon talking about the impact of social media and consumerism. But it's one of those things that I sort of find it I guess can't think quite the right word. Offensive is probably too strong a word, but overly audacious consumption is so pointless, it's so empty and it doesn't necessarily make you happy. But perhaps we're led to believe that by advertising buying their next shiny, big new thing, we will be happier. That's just stop true. Yeah, I think you've hit it on the hed, the nail on the head there. It's that Hamps to wheel of if I attain this or I get you that Nazi anything, then you'll feel that rush of happiness and content. But actually then you've achieved that, so you need to move on to the next thing. I think advertising really speeds up that process in our brains that make us feel those feelings and want that feeling again very quickly. Georgani I think that's we had a stat around this that says there were some research on a couple of years ago and for every new thing that you buy, that feeling of happiness, that endorphin in rush, last three...

...days before it disappears and you want the next thing. So it is very, very short hamster a wheel and we are good up to think there's always something bigger and better and something's going to improve our life or make us happier. And I think for Christmas there as well there's there's guilt as well. Perhaps you haven't spent enough time with somebody or you you know, you want to keep up with with family member or you know, there's a lot of showmanship, isn't there around Christmas, fifting, and I think that's also something we have to tackle, that kind of mindset of like you've got to give enough or you've got to get more than enough, and actually time and energy and love and thought going into things is is so much more valuable. Yeah, then how much they cost? Yeah, there's a couple of points in there. is any great interesting it's I think products now are built for obsoleunce, and so you team that with that three day stout, which is taggering. I've not heard that before, so I haven't. And the fact that things are designed to break or wear out or you know whatever. And that's that speeding that up as well of how often you need to buy things. And I think the joy that you get from things that become obsolete very quickly makes you feel like you need to keep buying so that you get that feeling again, whereas if you buy quality, not quantity, then you can maintain those feelings, I think, for my longer and hopefully make that step creep up at least a few days. It's coming in. How amazing is it to have a Christmas present that you're still using the next Christmas? Like my mom got me like a glass, some Cork Keep Cup a couple of years ago. It's literally one must treasured possession because it's unbreak caught, it doesn't make it's amazing I've held I mean, I'm not using it so much at the moment because people are taking them, but I just think it's so nice that I've had something that's really practical for the last few years. That was a Christmas present that's carried on, you know, being around and I guess you kind of can top up with like all the stuff you haven't bought yourself over the year or all the stuff that you want. Actually it's just not it's not necessary. Yeah, and yeah, it's just saying you know, you probably use that cup and you think of the person that gave you that gift and you still have that joy, yeah, when you use it, which is really nice. That's never ending gift as well, which is nice. And do you think let's let's talk about this year. I think it's going to be the elect there I'm going to have to mention it at some point. But do you think that what's happened this year? Everyone's notice, you know, a marked difference in the environment. People have spent less, they've reassess their priorities, perhaps by staying in more or staying closer to home, traveling less. Do you see, or have you felt that people's attitudes are changing to a function? I think I think a lot of people's asked shoes have changed. I think Christmas is going to be a challenge. Okay, I wonder whether some people will slip back into the buy everything kind of mentality because they haven't done it the rest of the year and Christmas is a time for spoiling yourself and eating everything and all the others to it. But I really hope there's a lot of people out there who do take into account what they've lived without so far this year and perhaps they've bought less or they've ordered their wardrobe or they've pledged to not buy anything fast fashion or everything and really actually communicate that out to friends and family or loved ones who you know, because quite often you get a lot gifts you don't want a Christmas, for a start, or that don't fit your values or that you wouldn't use. So I think there's maybe needs to be reassessment of like how we communicate what we want for Christmas as well and what's acceptable, what's appreciative, you...

...know, because also without having those conversations, we can we can just end buy endless stuff for each other. Yeah, but I really hope people as well well will kind of use Christmas to to sort of find stuff that's useful for them. So like, you know, if you're spending more time outside, good paint of hiking boots or, you know, if you're trying to live without plastic them kind of beauty products. You know, I think hopefully we can spend less and have less pressure on ourselves, because I think a lot of people as well are struggling financially will be struggling financially over Christmas. So let's strip out that pressure to kind of all get overdrawn or on our credit cards just for stuff we don't need. Yeah, and see. What do you think? Have you seen any changes maybe in your kind to you customer behavior of Pera? So we differently or we did a survey earlier the year, in the year where we actually asked two thousand people who weren't customers. I was using a survey chill that I was introduced to and we asked some pretty simple questions about if people had actually made sustainable changes in their lifestyle. So it was really about action versus intentions, and more than fifty percent of people said that they had, which I found incredibly reassuring. It was a relatively open question. So I think sustainability means different things to different people and the impacts that certain changes will have obviously depend on your lifestyle. But I do think this a lot of talk about the fact that this pandemic and the changes that it's made to the world has caused people to stop and think. So I'm hoping that actually that then turns into changes in consumption habits and so on. But then, yeah, I go to the supermarket and I see people piling in their trolleys all sorts of plastic holor wading toys and like I did this morning, and I think maybe it's just because I'm operating in a bubble where I talked to a lot of people about similar things. So you, I assume then people share the same values as me, but I wouldn't say overall, I feel that there is a broader movement in the direction of more thoughtful consumerism. So that takes lots of different forms and I do hope it doesn't put as much financial pressure on people, because actually I think it's dreadful that some people feel huge pressure to spend money but perhaps they don't necessarily have a lot of on things that they don't necessarily need. I think it's when you see these tins stacked up in the sea for market of all of these booklets ye already done. I know it's like it's starting to put in people's minds that they need to start making them sextual patches. I wonder as well, because because people don't quite know where they're going to be this Christmas, US I work and so many people, so many people I'm talking to, their plans and still very much up in the air, whereas, like I know my family, I'll plants would have be been sorted months ago, had you known wherever I is going to be, what's going to go on. So I wonder whether almost that's going to curtail some spending, because it's more important we get our families together or we figure out what we're doing then spending huge amounts on huge gifts. You know, I think we have, we do have this appreciation this year of our health, our environment, our family is really coming first, and I'd love it if that stayed like the same party throughout Christmas. That would be amazing. Yeah, no, I agree. I think that's a good point actually, because you know, maybe traveling and spending the money on traveling to someone is going to be more important then showering them with lots of gifts that you've automatically posted to their house from a huge, big retailer. Or you know, it's been just getting just getting to see people, because we haven't. We've all missed our family and friends or year. I think that actually could be quite a gift in itself, you know, just being able to spend time with people. Yeah,...

...and what do you think I mean? We're using the word conscious, but I would sort of wrap that up to be lots of different things and, as sue said, different things to different people. That can mean sustainable, it can mean ethical choices, it can mean charitable choices. For me it can be organic choices. At from you see, and what do you think this are some conscious approaches that people might want to consider this year, if you've got any examples? So of an approach, maybe an ethical one, the kind to that people might want to give him, and I think for a lot of people that's the time to give and that giving can actually take lots of different forms. So giving to charities, because I do actually think a lot more people this Christmas are going to be and die financial circumstances, Judah, things that they simply can't control. So, and that's the case not only the UK but across the rest of the world, and in my family there's always been a tradition of giving to charities of your choice in secret center and things like that, rather than actually giving each other things that we didn't need. I like to see that there's a lot more of that and the charities actually benefiting from People's generosity. When I think a lot of it comes down to making personal decisions about what makes you feel good and like I said, the choices can be with it's something that's ethically sourced or organic or whatever. Having once you start to get into this you realize there's so many different dimensions to the decision and all of them have their price and grands. It's never really binary, straightforward decision. And also I've been doing quite a bit of work actually trying to get in front of people for Christmas gift guides and there's a really strong push across mainstream media to support small, independent brands and business that's and I guess all three of us fallen into that categree and long way that continuous. Christ I confered independent businesses are really the big part of the economy and yet in Britain and a really important part of the economy too. I agree and I hope that. I think it's frant to mind at the moment and it has been thround dark and it's really fantastic. But I think is we get closer to that Christmas deadline, I really hope that people may be more organized it, that they can shop with that independence rather than relying on the one that's maybe see a fast that necessary doesn't contute as much to our sun. I see mentioning their names. that. Yeah, of course. I think it's all, like you mentioned, conscious and a really good way to be a conscious shopper if you do nothing else, is shop independent, and that does take a bit more thought. You need to find them. We have a good gift guy coming out next week if anyone wants to listen to that. Yes, but and also, you know, take into account of fact that they perhaps can't deliver overnight or perhaps you're getting something made bespoke or personalized, all those kind of things. So I think really making the effort to find those independent brands and support the independent makers and crafters and especially for such people, British businesses as well. So you're look kind of reducing air miles. There are so many environmental benefits to being a kind of independent shopper as well, aside from in fact, you know that money is going to people that really probably need it and appreciate it. So I think that is it's a really easy thing that you can do. Yeah, I mean there's a common saying amongst indies. I every time you get in order, someone does I have cans. Yeah, I look at that. Sometimes it size I had. It's a little bitch easy, but it's so true. Every order we get. My sister runs a been too business on etsy and on instagram and she has a kulching sign every time someone makes a sale and it's on her phone. We all do a little like...

...it's amazing. Yeah, and I think it's just so much. I mean, I'm obviously bias. We are biased, but I just feel it's so much more personal. Like a lot of our customers, I'll chat with them quite regularly or email back and forth. I feel like I know them, whereas you know, if something was to go wrong with like a huge, big retailer, I just don't feel that I would get the same level of care. And that's almost you kind of want that, especially around Christmas, knowing that someone cares so much about your loved one getting something that matches their expectations. Yeah, so big, big, big up for indie businesses for sure. I think is well, particularly if you're short of money and make things, can be a really great way to be conscious use less. I'm hopefully new one for my family is going to read this listen to this, but you know, learning how to make hair scrunch cheese at the moment a good little stocking filler. You can use up odds and ends of fabric if he's maybe shorn diskirt or something, and everyone's got elastic if they're making a homemade mask for covering their face when they go out. So I think, yeah, just finding little projects that you can do and it really connects me to that person. I think while I'm making it, like you know, it's not the highest quality in the world, but I think it brings you but it's it's thoughts and isn't it? Like I made like edible presents for most people last year and it took forever, but I really enjoy doing it and wrapping them up differently and thinking about what people like to eat and their flavors and things. And I know we've we always run lots of craft features around Christmas and like edible gifts that you can make and they're really, really popular and I think hopefully they'll be even more popular this year because I think people want to put that effort and give that thought and I think as well the others big bit decorate a bit. Sorry. The other big bit of Christmas for me is the decorations and we always do like craft features around decorations, especially using up leftover paper and leftover like twigs from outside, and now it's autumn and things. So I think again, it's another whole aspect of stuff you can cut down on and cut down the waist and cut down the expense. Number of people I know who go out buying new Christmas decorations every year because they want a different theme or something. You know, it's just a bit nuts. Only have your tree have literally the same three little Christmas decorations that we just get out of a box and we just hang them on on Kenda Labra. That's it. That's a Christmas tree. But you must get I do have the same every year. I get out which I've collected over it. We always make the decorations out of like left over, it's a paper or magazines and things. And I think again, you know, it's something nice that you can do as a family. Yeah, it does. It brings you together and I get joy out of seeing the same ones year after year. It takes me back to my childhood of this random little eggs or birds or all of those bit wooden things that go on the tree. So yeah, I think it's particularly tinsels quite badly the environment, but also, I think wrapping as well is something that is just such an expense, not always recyclable and it's gone in a flash. See, your products are all plastic free, including the bars themselves. You must feel pretty strongly about packaging and wrapping a Christmas. Do you do anything the minimize that? We actually have some running jokes in our family where I get the same paper bag out every year that has still has husband's name on it, very Christmas Luff, and then there's another one from Santa and then I just pack them away at the get back Christmas and I'll bring them out a year like that and they literally are like these. They now look quite taty, but it's...

...like this looks familiar. It's the same paper bag that combined FIDEA, a bit of wrapping, a newspaper and gifts inside really giant boxes that tenet to be really tiny. The sorts of things that we do in in our family. I do know. I cannot remember the last time I bought wrapping paper. I mean it must be so long ago. Yeah, so one of the bags is actually, bizarrely, a bag from a chicken shop in Hong Kong where we used to live, but it's his favorite chicken shop becomes a bit of an injury. Any sentiment or love that you but it's awfortune is this, isn't it, to create your own traditions and to create something special, like a few christmases ago I made, you know, let's remember, like potato stampers. Yes, and do it. You do basic premise all I made, all of I made all the round paper that it's just like newspaper with like bright paint on and stuff, and it was. I had so much fun doing it. I kind of didn't want people to come around their presence. I'm like, they look really but I think your series right, like you only use it for a couple of seconds and like, what does it really matter what it comes in? You might sill me it fun or funny. You know, it doesn't have to be, you know, super duper amazingly wrapped up and anything with them. So you know, how you can tell if it's recyclable or not, like if it's if it's scrunchy and doesn't stay scrunchy, then you can't. You can't recycle it. Okay, good tip. I think there's probably a lot that can't be recycled. It feels like everything, I think Rapa well, which is all rapid. Yeah, we tend to circulate amongst friends, but for birthdays as well as Christmas, will give, will swap the bags around the friendship group, and you also just wrapping in material and ribbon as well. Is a nice way because you can use that again or later in the year if you're crafting anything. It's quite a good way to to minimize the amount of waste on on Christmas Day itself and I guess other things. We've talked quite a lot about gifting aspects, but there's lots of other ways that we can be content, and we touched upon travel earlier. Georgia. I know you travel a lot by train and things like that, but for me, maybe where it's not possible for people to do that this year for safety reasons. So if you got any tips on how we could maybe offset or think about travel in a different way so that it's still kind of sustainably minded, I think, Gosh, it's difficult because this year, I mean obviously we can set it like I talk about that in a minute, but like I think this you it's kind of like taking whatever you can get if you're traveling because so much stuff isn't possible. Yeah, I mean I think lots of people are questioning how often they need to fly and how often they need to travel, which has been great. You know, if year ago, if you'd said we're going to ground ninety percent of all airlines fleet, you'd just laughed. That is what's Ha you know. So for that the environment's a massive winner. But I understand everyone wants to be at home for Christmas. Every wants to be with their families for Christmas. So I think it is that kind of like working out what is the most ECO friendly way to get there. Is it public transport, in which case you might need to leave a little bit longer? Is it a you know, sharing a car, which actually works out, actually got okay. If you've got some long as you got all like one person in the car, people at for people in the car and your car sharing, you're going the same direction, then that's a really good option. But it's difficult when you're weigh that against people's health risks and how much they want to be exposed to other people in a confined space. So I think it's a really challenging travel is going to be chasing this Christmas. But there are lots of ways you can off set it. So we're working with treedom, who are amazing, and you can kind of go on and work...

...out how far you've traveled and in what way you've traveled and you've got offset any travel. And then there's another one that's actually just started called reduce my footprint, which makes it even easier. I think it's three nine. You pay three ninety nine a month and they've worked out the average of one person's carbon emissions over the course of a year, taking in some travel, so that you just do standing order or a direct debit. Theyse then use that peoplant trees of the Eden project all over the world. So that's a kind of like you can sign up to it and figureut about it. But then there's lots of other carbon calculators. I know Gicki zero have a great one where you can work out what you're you know what your missions are likely to be over Christmas with all your travel and everything, so you can start the offset off step them. Or you can even sign up other people and offset their emissions. You know, happy Christmas if that all your omissions for you. Yeah, things like that. I think you're going back to sue's point. No, carbon offsetting is one way to sort of alleviate things, but so as giving to charity, that charities that work with the environment as well. There's lots of there's lots of different ways. It depends on your finances of actually giving your time. You know we're this is all sort of talking about money to offset things. Actually volunteering in your local area would be amazing, you know, as a way of kind of balancing out what you're what you're spending on what you're emitting. Yeah, I like that idea, I think. I mean, see you and I are based in London and I know you were traveling to London a fair bit. Or do you know this? But I think one thing I've noticed, certainly where I live, is the amount of homeless people. I think is it's creeping up. Yeah, and yet actually in lockdown had very, very little support from what I could see in my local area. So I think as well, Christmas is the time when maybe people leave the city or they maybe stay closer to homes, they maybe less connected with that particular issue, which affects London quite a lot. That I I say does also go back into the conscious thing, you know, shopping with people at shelter and crisis by second Christmas presents or donating things that you get that you don't need. You know, that's another way to sort of close that loop as well. Yeah, I guess let's maybe talk about food as well. I think is quite an interesting topic for Christmas because we've talked about those tins and the super market. There everyone starts the stuck up on lots of things. How do you think you can be more conscious when it comes to the food choices we're making it Christmas. See, do you have anything particularly do your Christmas Day? That, yeah, when when there's just the two of us, so we don't have a big Christmas and we tend to go away rather than necessarily host of Christmas at home. It's one of those things that's frankly quite confounded me, is why is the supermarket more crowded at Christmas time, because surely people have to eat all year round? Yeah, so we would. Typically we'd be a way somewhere. We might just go out for lunch on go out for dinner, but it would just be an ordinary help for luncher up for dinner and you know, food waste is one of those things that actually really upsets me. And so, you know, planning, I. Guess, your meal around what you're likely dy not likely to eat not only saves you money, but it actually is it's just an all round better thing to do. So I mean, I hope that a lot more people will give thought to that this year, perhaps because they've got a bit more time on their hands. So often convenience and time I really mixed in together. I got bit more time, you can plan a bit further ahead, which means that you're actually not necessarily buying or making meals that people won't eat. So, yeah, we're pretty lucky about Christmas to US reminder. To be fair, people actually called me a grinch in the past, so I think I have to bet I'm the other way like. I have to reign myself in Christmas because not from like swording...

...stuff or buying stuff too early, but I'd get over excited about what I can cook and what I want to make and what I'm going to serve to people and I forget that people don't want three courses perhaps three times a day. You know, I'm can make this. I've got people so I can make this and after about two days I'm like, no one wants eat anything else ever again because I've over had them. So I think I have to kind of rain myself in a go. Okay, well, we probably don't need really heavy, big meals, you know, every night over Christmas, and I don't need to buy starters and I don't need to buy pudding for everybody and yeah, things. So I think there's there is that want or desire to kind of give people a good time and to kind of impress people or actually do it because it gives you pleasure. You know, could gives me a lot of pleasure. But I think as well, like one thing I've definitely honed up on this summer as being like using leftovers more wisely, freezing things, you know, creating meals from like cupboard that perhaps don't never have a recipe, should never be made over again in rather than kind of making every meal and event. Yeah, and I also think as well we are moving, and more people are moving from very heavy like meat and dairy over Christmas towards more plant based alternatives. I know there's a log there's a big debate around whether we just eat fake meat products or whether we don't eat me at all. Yeah, but I think, you know, we're planning loads and IDs of vegan recipes over Christmas and making vegetables that are the real heroes of Christmas and obviously they're so much easier to then use up, to stop waste, to throw away. They come in less plastic. You know, there's so many more environmental benefits of eating a plant based I other than just the nutrition and what's on your plate. So I think people are starting to kind of shift away from that very traditional it's got to be Turkey, it's got to be Christmas pudding, it's got to be everything. Yeah, in a buffet, and I think that's Eastry to see. There's a lot of creativity coming through with the recipes. I think we've prejom that mean there's so many incredible all vege around vegetable vegetable varieties around this time of year and also you just feel lighter. You don't want to have a nap at two o'clock every single day because you're eating pastry and lots of meat and lots of cream and all of the trimmings. But in our family on Christmas Day we actually just have one big meal. We'll have a list, will have a sats humor from our stocking, Chris Breakfast and maybe maybe a bit of chocolate. But then the main middle starts at all your clock and we just eat three courses, but over a very, very long period of time and actually means that we sit around the table as a family for probably about six hours. But it just flies by because food isn't really the it is about the food, but it's also about just disting about the table. So yeah, it doesn't feel like you need to then be like, Oh, when's the next meal? We just have a few little picky bits here and there, butter. Yeah. So I think that's quite a nice way of making food be an extended part of it rather than lots and lots of rather than rather than the main of been so day. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, just haven't played one board game in between every course. You'll really that's the best thing about Christmas and buy it's right. Well, ends a thing. Yeah, thing I do want to do as well, because this has been so topsy turvy and everyone's been at home and probably eating or throughout the year than they have done normally or snacked whatever, whether we need to go into that over Christmas, because I fit to begin with I felt like the lockdown was kind of that weird bit between Christmas and New Year where you're kind of nothing's really working and it's all a bit weird. So I kind of feel like, yes, Christmas is brilliant to get together and I'm really going forward...

...to I don't feel like I need that like Slovenly bit. I feel like I've done quite lot of that this year. So I feel like it's way more about being outside and just enjoying not working rather than making it, because often at Christmas it's the first time, or one of the Times all year you get to really just be at home, yeah, and turn everything off, and obviously that is have been our whole year. So I think maybe it's more active Christmas this year for people I hate hopefully, I mean people must hoping Ding to be away somewhere in the countryside and not actually have to cook, because I'm really sorry cooking. I wish you have that to us. I mean we've covered lots and lots of points, but do you have any other advice or an experience how your own Christmas that I've not shared? That that you think will help others to maybe think about things a bit more consciously to how about you? One of the very best Christmas as I've ever heard was with my sister in Tasmania, whom she was living, where we worked at a homeless Shell to serving Christmas dinner to people. It was actually a really good experience, and so we've been looking at whether something like that might happen in our local area, because I know that I would enjoy doing that and I actually really I guess it's just one of those things that we feel good doing it and then you know you're benefiting other people as well. So and I hope more people are prepared to do things like this year, but that this year I feel that there is a much stronger community spirit around where I live now in a way that there wasn't last year, and so I'm hoping that there's a lot more community type activities that happen around Christmas. Georgina. How about you? I'm going to give U two slightly contradictory things, but they do kind of work. If you've every think ones that. Following on from Sue's I think you know, at the start of lockdown we had always amazing. What's that group spring up? A mutual aid groups and community groups, and I wonder how we can use those over Christmas, like with sooth sayings, of with the with the serving food and things, but also dropping gifts into neighbors and dropping cards in or making biscuits with people or just I think we're all going to need a bit more community year this year, especially things go on the way they've been going on for the last few weeks. So I think actually not forgetting that kind of coming togetherness that we had, you know, backings of May and June, and so if we re resurrecting that, we resurrect resurrecting map for those and then also, I would say, on the flip side, though, don't let what other people are doing distract you from what you want to do. You know, there's a lot of pressure to keep up with the Joneses and I oh, they've got all decorations or so. So it's going to do more presence. It's just about what you feel comfortable with and having those conversations with people around you and if you I feel like this year is one of the year where we can kind of go this is how I want to celebrate Christmas, and that's okay, you know. So I think it's about of actually sort of living those values that Christmas that perhaps embraced about the rest of the year. Yeah, carrying it through and don't go wild just because it's an exciting time of year, which it is exciting. We're pretty were not giving a sudvice it that everyone has a really purest, strict, non Christmas field with joy and love and all of these things. I can be still incredibly depting. It's just if you want to try and make a few little changes that might make a big difference, then yeah, we've got some good ideas. And speaking of community, you we all soon and I are both going to be involved in Georgian's upcoming event, which is future and which I mean I let you speak about it, but we're very, very excited to be bird of it, which is virtual this year. So tell us about each rest and why...

...you chosen November to host it. So we did for BIG PEBBLE FEST events last year in London in person, and sue has been a couple of them. Car we I think you might have been at the last time. I can't remember. Well, I had another event on the same day, but otherwise I was that's it. And the last one was the end of November last year and it was beautiful, like we had always twinkly lights. It was really Christmas ee and it's a huge market and talks and workshops and it was so lovely to see our online community come together offline and meet New People and just all celebrate together and encourage each other to make sustainable choices and share information all these other amazing things. So obviously this year has been completely different and we really wanted to to not lose that and bring our community together, you know, and so open ourselves up to a bigger community at the end of this year. The reason it's on the seventh and nights of November. It's called future first and originally it was going to be a massive in person event around cop twenty six, which was due to be early November. Obviously it has been canceled or PUSS pushed back for a year. So that's why it's early November. And we were going to take over the Truman brewery in London and have like all these different installations and activations and things go on. And in July we just had to go yet that's not going to happen. So we've pivoted on to an online, virtual, online, virtual festival again with talks, workshops, huge market which you're both involved in, and we've got diy workshops around skincare, up cycling, mindset, change, vegan cooking with Tom Hunt from the Guardian, all sorts of different things. And then we've got nine of the world's biggest sustainable podcasters coming to record US exclusive episodes. Lily Cole's going to be in conversational Saturday and we just confirmed a documentary that we're going to show the night before for Free With Rain Dance Film Festival or of this Great Green Wall across Africa. So we've got some amazing partners involved. I think we've got forty four market stands now. We've got about thirty speakers. There's a music stage where we'll plant trees for you dancing in your living room. We've even got wine tasting, which I'm quite excited about wine. So yeah, it's a really it feels like a really good way to round off what has been a pretty stressful year, bring people together. It's Christmas. Go without any Christmas in this so you don't need to worry about that. But you can do your Christmas shopping, obviously, and all ticket holders get discounts across the market. So to help you do your shopping, yeah, including discount from blom of beauty and kind to it's you're going to be doing. I'm free beauty consultations, so people can kind of find you and book in for Expert Advice. Yesterday, you can have a little video chat with me if you want to make swaps your own beauty regime and maybe switched to organic products or natural only products and you want to try some plastic free him peoples, we can also talk you through and or if you want to help, if you are not, if you're a conscious Christmas Virgin, I'd say, and you want to try and find a gift for someone that is really sustainably minded and your bit stuck, then we can also help you with that tea. So yeah, I'm really, really looking forward to it. I think it's going to be an incredible event and I'm, you know, very privileged to be there alongside to see you as well, who we also represent. See. What are you looking forward to? You about the festival? Well, I'm wondering how I can actually attend some of the AL events as well as men must end, and now that would be everywhere. So, because I'm really excited, I've had a good look through the people who are talking. I'm actually going to be joining Andrea Fox on the age of plastic podcast for a small segment, so I might have a stand in person for me at least a little look, few little bits. Well,...

I have really good news for you. All of the contents, all the talks, all the PODCASTS, all the workshops, not the networking, but that's the only thing. It's going to be recorded and available for two weeks afterwards, so don't have to sit there for eight hours day watching it. Your ticket gets you all access to all the videos afterwards, so you can kind of catch up on demark like you do a Netflix. Perfect can be in two places at once. It okay, that's go. Magic is actually have a bit of virtual wine tasting as well, then definitely. Well, I can't think of a better way to continue the start of our conversation and enjoy it a bit closer to Christmas, maybe do some Contra shopping and also learn more about how you can be more consciously minded as well. So thank you and thanks for chatting today. If people want to get tickets, Georgina, do you want to just give a little plug for your tickets when it's pepple feature firstcom for all the tickets and the tickets at seven pound fifty for all of the content. All we can do amazing, and you can of course find sue's products, which are a great piller, either pebble first at we are kind to or kind to dot me, is your words. YEA, or, of course, apple will betcom as well. So thanks for chatting today and we'll see you again very soon. Thanks for having me. It's been Veri now for the very festive yes, same. Thank you, Karen. Thank you. That's to see. Bye, bye, bye. Thank you to sue and Georgina for sharing some incredible tips on how to spend more mindfully this Christmas. I'll certainly be introducing sum to my own a Christmas this year and I can really see how mindful gifting can help to alleviate some of the feelings of stress or anxiety that are often associated with gifting at this time of year. I hope you've enjoyed the episode and are inspired to attend a pebble MAG's future fest on the seventh and Eighth of November, but for all alerts on future episodes, make sure to rate and subscribe. Thanks for listening.

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