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How To Have A More Conscious Christmas

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Karen, founder of Blomma Beauty is chatting with Sue Campbell, founder of plastic free shampoo and conditioner bars KIND2 and Georgina Wilson-Powell, founder of sustainable lifestyle digital magazine Pebble Mag about how to shop more consciously this Christmas. In light of the pandemic many people have chosen to live more sustainably, ethically and mindfully. Whether you're new to conscious living or are a firm advocate of shopping your values already, Sue and Georgina share some incredible tips on how we can reimagine Christmas to shop, eat and travel more consciously without having to minimise the joy and love spread around this time of year. 

You are listening to the conscious beautyand wellbeing podcast. I'm Karen, the founder of organic beauty and wellbeing retailerblomber beauty, and today's episode is with suit from kind to and Georgina fromPebble Mag we're talking about how to make Christmas more conscious, whether it's moresustainable, ethical, charitable or minimalist. We had a great chat about themeaning of Christmas, particularly in light of this year's pandemic, and Georgina andsuit shares of fantastic tips and how you can shop one mindfully this Christmas.I hope you enjoy today. I am joined by Sue Campbell, who isthe founder of kind to, which is natural, plastic free and multi awardwinning shampoo and condition of ours, and Georgina Wilson Powell, who is thefounder and editor of Pebblemag, which is an online sustainable lifestyle magazine, andwe're going to be talking about how to have a more conscious Christmas. Ithink after the year we've had, more and more people are seeming to bewanting to make more conscious choices, whether that's from an ethical or a sustainablestandpoint. So we're coming to this conversation with lots of different perspectives, allfrom owning consciously minded businesses, but also we are all consumers to so hopefullythere's going to be lots of takeaways from this episode on how to consider adifferent approach to a time of year that's regularly centered on spending and excess.So welcome to and Georgina. I thank you, Karen. You're just you. It's good to see you, to see you. Let's start with you. You have a consciously minded brand. Tell as a little bit more aboutkind to and and why I wanted to have such conscious credentials for your products. So come too. Is really all about trying to eliminate plastic at source. I had this brain wave that if I wanted to actually have an impacton plastic pollution, in order to do something above and beyond my own recycling, I really needed to create a brand or create an opportunity but actually couldleverage. So I started kind to because I know that I can effectively eliminatea plastic bottle or two plastic bottles or three plastic bottles every single time somebodybuys my products, and I really want it to be something that actually growsand becomes normal plastic free cosmetics really can be the new normal, and that'sultimately my ambition with kind to yeah, normal and just as effective. Wewere actually to move, of course, about how effective your products are.And did you really want to make it an easy swap, not a difficultswap? Say That people who are may be less knowledgeable about it can feelconfident making a swap that still going to be just as effective at the hackass so I think. And and it doesn't have to amount compromise. I'dactually have to say my hair is in the best condition it's ever being.So yeah, that in itself, as I guess, good enough for me. So I'm hoping it's good enough for everybody else. We are walking advertfor your front. It looks gorgeous. Yeah, really, yeah, anddo do it, I mean see. You and I are basic fans ofPebble Mag and it's how we came to collaborate today. But your magazine isfocused on conscious, sustainable, ethical lifestyle. Talk to us about pebble and andwhy you felt that was so important to to start the magazine based onthat. Well, I think a lot of people like myself and suit starttheir businesses because they feel a need that there's a need for change and theidea behind set of changing opinions and changing mindsets and moving consumers away from someoverconsumption and like mindless consumption. And so I thought about starting a brand fouryears ago, but really my my skills line communication. I've been a magazineeditor forever. You know, I've worked in magazines forever. So for mepebble was a similar in color too, sues. Like you know, itwas the way to talk about how to normalize what we now know a subconscious consumerism and talk about waste and plastic...

...waves and zero waves and all theother issues that the pebble talks about. So we cover everything to do withlifestyle, so whether that's the clothes you wear, the food you eat,the places you go, the people you talk to, and we're trying tomove consumers away from, you know, just the perhaps where they've been before, which is not thinking about before and after they buy products or before andafter they do things. And that she thought talk about this supply chains andtalk about how we can change, what we can do and also give peoplea bit of what we call active hope, which we call everyday activism. Onthe on the website and on the magazine to empower them, because weget told so often the individual choices can't make a difference and if that wastrue, businesses like yourself and to wouldn't exist, they wouldn't be growing.So I think it's, you know, it's the right opposite of that.Individuals can make a real difference and we want to be able to make thatas easy as possible and give them as much information as possible to make thosechanges. Yeah, I think it's so great that the platform like yours existbecause, you know, I come at it from a retail effective shouting aboutall these wonderful independent brands that are doing something really lovely and conscious in theworld. But you kind of bring everything together not just from a shopping perspective. It's about how you can live your life and again, it's making iteasy to do so. So I think that is like small ways make bigchange, don't they? And I think you're absolutely being that, which isfantastic. But yeah, we're here stay talk about Christmas, which seems alittle bit strange because we're recording this in October. Got To think this yeareveryone's really looking forward to Christmas after a year of lockdown pandemics and, youknow, a bit of a dreary, a dreary year to be honest.But if we zoom out from that at the moment, historically I think Christmasis always, or it maybe in recent years been, really centered around consumption, you know, whether that's how decoradent your Christmas dinner is or how manygifts you give people or how much you spend or why? Why do youboth think that is so? Why do you think people are so geared upto consume around Christmas? Yeah, I had a really good think about thatand I think a lot of it is about it's an overt demonstration of something. Now, whether that overt demonstration is saying how much you know, Ilove you and as my family and I want to show you with gifts inorder to demonstrate that love, or potentially, and overt didn't, demonstration of howsuccessful I am, so I can buy lots of gifts and so on. And I just think it's really our society as a whole. Consumerism isjust become part of what drives the economy, but also how people define themselves,and social media is probably exacerbated that. We could probably spend all afternoon talkingabout the impact of social media and consumerism. But it's one of thosethings that I sort of find it I guess can't think quite the right word. Offensive is probably too strong a word, but overly audacious consumption is so pointless, it's so empty and it doesn't necessarily make you happy. But perhapswe're led to believe that by advertising buying their next shiny, big new thing, we will be happier. That's just stop true. Yeah, I thinkyou've hit it on the hed, the nail on the head there. It'sthat Hamps to wheel of if I attain this or I get you that Nazianything, then you'll feel that rush of happiness and content. But actually thenyou've achieved that, so you need to move on to the next thing.I think advertising really speeds up that process in our brains that make us feelthose feelings and want that feeling again very quickly. Georgani I think that's wehad a stat around this that says there were some research on a couple ofyears ago and for every new thing that you buy, that feeling of happiness, that endorphin in rush, last three...

...days before it disappears and you wantthe next thing. So it is very, very short hamster a wheel and weare good up to think there's always something bigger and better and something's goingto improve our life or make us happier. And I think for Christmas there aswell there's there's guilt as well. Perhaps you haven't spent enough time withsomebody or you you know, you want to keep up with with family memberor you know, there's a lot of showmanship, isn't there around Christmas,fifting, and I think that's also something we have to tackle, that kindof mindset of like you've got to give enough or you've got to get morethan enough, and actually time and energy and love and thought going into thingsis is so much more valuable. Yeah, then how much they cost? Yeah, there's a couple of points in there. is any great interesting it'sI think products now are built for obsoleunce, and so you team that with thatthree day stout, which is taggering. I've not heard that before, soI haven't. And the fact that things are designed to break or wearout or you know whatever. And that's that speeding that up as well ofhow often you need to buy things. And I think the joy that youget from things that become obsolete very quickly makes you feel like you need tokeep buying so that you get that feeling again, whereas if you buy quality, not quantity, then you can maintain those feelings, I think, formy longer and hopefully make that step creep up at least a few days.It's coming in. How amazing is it to have a Christmas present that you'restill using the next Christmas? Like my mom got me like a glass,some Cork Keep Cup a couple of years ago. It's literally one must treasuredpossession because it's unbreak caught, it doesn't make it's amazing I've held I mean, I'm not using it so much at the moment because people are taking them, but I just think it's so nice that I've had something that's really practicalfor the last few years. That was a Christmas present that's carried on,you know, being around and I guess you kind of can top up withlike all the stuff you haven't bought yourself over the year or all the stuffthat you want. Actually it's just not it's not necessary. Yeah, andyeah, it's just saying you know, you probably use that cup and youthink of the person that gave you that gift and you still have that joy, yeah, when you use it, which is really nice. That's neverending gift as well, which is nice. And do you think let's let's talkabout this year. I think it's going to be the elect there I'mgoing to have to mention it at some point. But do you think thatwhat's happened this year? Everyone's notice, you know, a marked difference inthe environment. People have spent less, they've reassess their priorities, perhaps bystaying in more or staying closer to home, traveling less. Do you see,or have you felt that people's attitudes are changing to a function? Ithink I think a lot of people's asked shoes have changed. I think Christmasis going to be a challenge. Okay, I wonder whether some people will slipback into the buy everything kind of mentality because they haven't done it therest of the year and Christmas is a time for spoiling yourself and eating everythingand all the others to it. But I really hope there's a lot ofpeople out there who do take into account what they've lived without so far thisyear and perhaps they've bought less or they've ordered their wardrobe or they've pledged tonot buy anything fast fashion or everything and really actually communicate that out to friendsand family or loved ones who you know, because quite often you get a lotgifts you don't want a Christmas, for a start, or that don'tfit your values or that you wouldn't use. So I think there's maybe needs tobe reassessment of like how we communicate what we want for Christmas as welland what's acceptable, what's appreciative, you...

...know, because also without having thoseconversations, we can we can just end buy endless stuff for each other.Yeah, but I really hope people as well well will kind of use Christmasto to sort of find stuff that's useful for them. So like, youknow, if you're spending more time outside, good paint of hiking boots or,you know, if you're trying to live without plastic them kind of beautyproducts. You know, I think hopefully we can spend less and have lesspressure on ourselves, because I think a lot of people as well are strugglingfinancially will be struggling financially over Christmas. So let's strip out that pressure tokind of all get overdrawn or on our credit cards just for stuff we don'tneed. Yeah, and see. What do you think? Have you seenany changes maybe in your kind to you customer behavior of Pera? So wedifferently or we did a survey earlier the year, in the year where weactually asked two thousand people who weren't customers. I was using a survey chill thatI was introduced to and we asked some pretty simple questions about if peoplehad actually made sustainable changes in their lifestyle. So it was really about action versusintentions, and more than fifty percent of people said that they had,which I found incredibly reassuring. It was a relatively open question. So Ithink sustainability means different things to different people and the impacts that certain changes willhave obviously depend on your lifestyle. But I do think this a lot oftalk about the fact that this pandemic and the changes that it's made to theworld has caused people to stop and think. So I'm hoping that actually that thenturns into changes in consumption habits and so on. But then, yeah, I go to the supermarket and I see people piling in their trolleys allsorts of plastic holor wading toys and like I did this morning, and Ithink maybe it's just because I'm operating in a bubble where I talked to alot of people about similar things. So you, I assume then people sharethe same values as me, but I wouldn't say overall, I feel thatthere is a broader movement in the direction of more thoughtful consumerism. So thattakes lots of different forms and I do hope it doesn't put as much financialpressure on people, because actually I think it's dreadful that some people feel hugepressure to spend money but perhaps they don't necessarily have a lot of on thingsthat they don't necessarily need. I think it's when you see these tins stackedup in the sea for market of all of these booklets ye already done.I know it's like it's starting to put in people's minds that they need tostart making them sextual patches. I wonder as well, because because people don'tquite know where they're going to be this Christmas, US I work and somany people, so many people I'm talking to, their plans and still verymuch up in the air, whereas, like I know my family, I'llplants would have be been sorted months ago, had you known wherever I is goingto be, what's going to go on. So I wonder whether almostthat's going to curtail some spending, because it's more important we get our familiestogether or we figure out what we're doing then spending huge amounts on huge gifts. You know, I think we have, we do have this appreciation this yearof our health, our environment, our family is really coming first,and I'd love it if that stayed like the same party throughout Christmas. Thatwould be amazing. Yeah, no, I agree. I think that's agood point actually, because you know, maybe traveling and spending the money ontraveling to someone is going to be more important then showering them with lots ofgifts that you've automatically posted to their house from a huge, big retailer.Or you know, it's been just getting just getting to see people, becausewe haven't. We've all missed our family and friends or year. I thinkthat actually could be quite a gift in itself, you know, just beingable to spend time with people. Yeah,...

...and what do you think I mean? We're using the word conscious, but I would sort of wrap thatup to be lots of different things and, as sue said, different things todifferent people. That can mean sustainable, it can mean ethical choices, itcan mean charitable choices. For me it can be organic choices. Atfrom you see, and what do you think this are some conscious approaches thatpeople might want to consider this year, if you've got any examples? Soof an approach, maybe an ethical one, the kind to that people might wantto give him, and I think for a lot of people that's thetime to give and that giving can actually take lots of different forms. Sogiving to charities, because I do actually think a lot more people this Christmasare going to be and die financial circumstances, Judah, things that they simply can'tcontrol. So, and that's the case not only the UK but acrossthe rest of the world, and in my family there's always been a traditionof giving to charities of your choice in secret center and things like that,rather than actually giving each other things that we didn't need. I like tosee that there's a lot more of that and the charities actually benefiting from People'sgenerosity. When I think a lot of it comes down to making personal decisionsabout what makes you feel good and like I said, the choices can bewith it's something that's ethically sourced or organic or whatever. Having once you startto get into this you realize there's so many different dimensions to the decision andall of them have their price and grands. It's never really binary, straightforward decision. And also I've been doing quite a bit of work actually trying toget in front of people for Christmas gift guides and there's a really strong pushacross mainstream media to support small, independent brands and business that's and I guessall three of us fallen into that categree and long way that continuous. ChristI confered independent businesses are really the big part of the economy and yet inBritain and a really important part of the economy too. I agree and Ihope that. I think it's frant to mind at the moment and it hasbeen thround dark and it's really fantastic. But I think is we get closerto that Christmas deadline, I really hope that people may be more organized it, that they can shop with that independence rather than relying on the one that'smaybe see a fast that necessary doesn't contute as much to our sun. Isee mentioning their names. that. Yeah, of course. I think it's all, like you mentioned, conscious and a really good way to be aconscious shopper if you do nothing else, is shop independent, and that doestake a bit more thought. You need to find them. We have agood gift guy coming out next week if anyone wants to listen to that.Yes, but and also, you know, take into account of fact that theyperhaps can't deliver overnight or perhaps you're getting something made bespoke or personalized,all those kind of things. So I think really making the effort to findthose independent brands and support the independent makers and crafters and especially for such people, British businesses as well. So you're look kind of reducing air miles.There are so many environmental benefits to being a kind of independent shopper as well, aside from in fact, you know that money is going to people thatreally probably need it and appreciate it. So I think that is it's areally easy thing that you can do. Yeah, I mean there's a commonsaying amongst indies. I every time you get in order, someone does Ihave cans. Yeah, I look at that. Sometimes it size I had. It's a little bitch easy, but it's so true. Every order weget. My sister runs a been too business on etsy and on instagram andshe has a kulching sign every time someone makes a sale and it's on herphone. We all do a little like...

...it's amazing. Yeah, and Ithink it's just so much. I mean, I'm obviously bias. We are biased, but I just feel it's so much more personal. Like a lotof our customers, I'll chat with them quite regularly or email back and forth. I feel like I know them, whereas you know, if something wasto go wrong with like a huge, big retailer, I just don't feelthat I would get the same level of care. And that's almost you kindof want that, especially around Christmas, knowing that someone cares so much aboutyour loved one getting something that matches their expectations. Yeah, so big,big, big up for indie businesses for sure. I think is well,particularly if you're short of money and make things, can be a really greatway to be conscious use less. I'm hopefully new one for my family isgoing to read this listen to this, but you know, learning how tomake hair scrunch cheese at the moment a good little stocking filler. You canuse up odds and ends of fabric if he's maybe shorn diskirt or something,and everyone's got elastic if they're making a homemade mask for covering their face whenthey go out. So I think, yeah, just finding little projects thatyou can do and it really connects me to that person. I think whileI'm making it, like you know, it's not the highest quality in theworld, but I think it brings you but it's it's thoughts and isn't it? Like I made like edible presents for most people last year and it tookforever, but I really enjoy doing it and wrapping them up differently and thinkingabout what people like to eat and their flavors and things. And I knowwe've we always run lots of craft features around Christmas and like edible gifts thatyou can make and they're really, really popular and I think hopefully they'll beeven more popular this year because I think people want to put that effort andgive that thought and I think as well the others big bit decorate a bit. Sorry. The other big bit of Christmas for me is the decorations andwe always do like craft features around decorations, especially using up leftover paper and leftoverlike twigs from outside, and now it's autumn and things. So Ithink again, it's another whole aspect of stuff you can cut down on andcut down the waist and cut down the expense. Number of people I knowwho go out buying new Christmas decorations every year because they want a different themeor something. You know, it's just a bit nuts. Only have yourtree have literally the same three little Christmas decorations that we just get out ofa box and we just hang them on on Kenda Labra. That's it.That's a Christmas tree. But you must get I do have the same everyyear. I get out which I've collected over it. We always make thedecorations out of like left over, it's a paper or magazines and things.And I think again, you know, it's something nice that you can doas a family. Yeah, it does. It brings you together and I getjoy out of seeing the same ones year after year. It takes meback to my childhood of this random little eggs or birds or all of thosebit wooden things that go on the tree. So yeah, I think it's particularlytinsels quite badly the environment, but also, I think wrapping as wellis something that is just such an expense, not always recyclable and it's gone ina flash. See, your products are all plastic free, including thebars themselves. You must feel pretty strongly about packaging and wrapping a Christmas.Do you do anything the minimize that? We actually have some running jokes inour family where I get the same paper bag out every year that has stillhas husband's name on it, very Christmas Luff, and then there's another onefrom Santa and then I just pack them away at the get back Christmas andI'll bring them out a year like that and they literally are like these.They now look quite taty, but it's...

...like this looks familiar. It's thesame paper bag that combined FIDEA, a bit of wrapping, a newspaper andgifts inside really giant boxes that tenet to be really tiny. The sorts ofthings that we do in in our family. I do know. I cannot rememberthe last time I bought wrapping paper. I mean it must be so longago. Yeah, so one of the bags is actually, bizarrely,a bag from a chicken shop in Hong Kong where we used to live,but it's his favorite chicken shop becomes a bit of an injury. Any sentimentor love that you but it's awfortune is this, isn't it, to createyour own traditions and to create something special, like a few christmases ago I made, you know, let's remember, like potato stampers. Yes, anddo it. You do basic premise all I made, all of I madeall the round paper that it's just like newspaper with like bright paint on andstuff, and it was. I had so much fun doing it. Ikind of didn't want people to come around their presence. I'm like, theylook really but I think your series right, like you only use it for acouple of seconds and like, what does it really matter what it comesin? You might sill me it fun or funny. You know, itdoesn't have to be, you know, super duper amazingly wrapped up and anythingwith them. So you know, how you can tell if it's recyclable ornot, like if it's if it's scrunchy and doesn't stay scrunchy, then youcan't. You can't recycle it. Okay, good tip. I think there's probablya lot that can't be recycled. It feels like everything, I thinkRapa well, which is all rapid. Yeah, we tend to circulate amongstfriends, but for birthdays as well as Christmas, will give, will swapthe bags around the friendship group, and you also just wrapping in material andribbon as well. Is a nice way because you can use that again orlater in the year if you're crafting anything. It's quite a good way to tominimize the amount of waste on on Christmas Day itself and I guess otherthings. We've talked quite a lot about gifting aspects, but there's lots ofother ways that we can be content, and we touched upon travel earlier.Georgia. I know you travel a lot by train and things like that,but for me, maybe where it's not possible for people to do that thisyear for safety reasons. So if you got any tips on how we couldmaybe offset or think about travel in a different way so that it's still kindof sustainably minded, I think, Gosh, it's difficult because this year, Imean obviously we can set it like I talk about that in a minute, but like I think this you it's kind of like taking whatever you canget if you're traveling because so much stuff isn't possible. Yeah, I meanI think lots of people are questioning how often they need to fly and howoften they need to travel, which has been great. You know, ifyear ago, if you'd said we're going to ground ninety percent of all airlinesfleet, you'd just laughed. That is what's Ha you know. So forthat the environment's a massive winner. But I understand everyone wants to be athome for Christmas. Every wants to be with their families for Christmas. SoI think it is that kind of like working out what is the most ECOfriendly way to get there. Is it public transport, in which case youmight need to leave a little bit longer? Is it a you know, sharinga car, which actually works out, actually got okay. If you've gotsome long as you got all like one person in the car, peopleat for people in the car and your car sharing, you're going the samedirection, then that's a really good option. But it's difficult when you're weigh thatagainst people's health risks and how much they want to be exposed to otherpeople in a confined space. So I think it's a really challenging travel isgoing to be chasing this Christmas. But there are lots of ways you canoff set it. So we're working with treedom, who are amazing, andyou can kind of go on and work...

...out how far you've traveled and inwhat way you've traveled and you've got offset any travel. And then there's anotherone that's actually just started called reduce my footprint, which makes it even easier. I think it's three nine. You pay three ninety nine a month andthey've worked out the average of one person's carbon emissions over the course of ayear, taking in some travel, so that you just do standing order ora direct debit. Theyse then use that peoplant trees of the Eden project allover the world. So that's a kind of like you can sign up toit and figureut about it. But then there's lots of other carbon calculators.I know Gicki zero have a great one where you can work out what you'reyou know what your missions are likely to be over Christmas with all your traveland everything, so you can start the offset off step them. Or youcan even sign up other people and offset their emissions. You know, happyChristmas if that all your omissions for you. Yeah, things like that. Ithink you're going back to sue's point. No, carbon offsetting is one wayto sort of alleviate things, but so as giving to charity, thatcharities that work with the environment as well. There's lots of there's lots of differentways. It depends on your finances of actually giving your time. Youknow we're this is all sort of talking about money to offset things. Actuallyvolunteering in your local area would be amazing, you know, as a way ofkind of balancing out what you're what you're spending on what you're emitting.Yeah, I like that idea, I think. I mean, see youand I are based in London and I know you were traveling to London afair bit. Or do you know this? But I think one thing I've noticed, certainly where I live, is the amount of homeless people. Ithink is it's creeping up. Yeah, and yet actually in lockdown had very, very little support from what I could see in my local area. SoI think as well, Christmas is the time when maybe people leave the cityor they maybe stay closer to homes, they maybe less connected with that particularissue, which affects London quite a lot. That I I say does also goback into the conscious thing, you know, shopping with people at shelterand crisis by second Christmas presents or donating things that you get that you don'tneed. You know, that's another way to sort of close that loop aswell. Yeah, I guess let's maybe talk about food as well. Ithink is quite an interesting topic for Christmas because we've talked about those tins andthe super market. There everyone starts the stuck up on lots of things.How do you think you can be more conscious when it comes to the foodchoices we're making it Christmas. See, do you have anything particularly do yourChristmas Day? That, yeah, when when there's just the two of us, so we don't have a big Christmas and we tend to go away ratherthan necessarily host of Christmas at home. It's one of those things that's franklyquite confounded me, is why is the supermarket more crowded at Christmas time,because surely people have to eat all year round? Yeah, so we would. Typically we'd be a way somewhere. We might just go out for lunchon go out for dinner, but it would just be an ordinary help forluncher up for dinner and you know, food waste is one of those thingsthat actually really upsets me. And so, you know, planning, I.Guess, your meal around what you're likely dy not likely to eat notonly saves you money, but it actually is it's just an all round betterthing to do. So I mean, I hope that a lot more peoplewill give thought to that this year, perhaps because they've got a bit moretime on their hands. So often convenience and time I really mixed in together. I got bit more time, you can plan a bit further ahead,which means that you're actually not necessarily buying or making meals that people won't eat. So, yeah, we're pretty lucky about Christmas to US reminder. Tobe fair, people actually called me a grinch in the past, so Ithink I have to bet I'm the other way like. I have to reignmyself in Christmas because not from like swording...

...stuff or buying stuff too early,but I'd get over excited about what I can cook and what I want tomake and what I'm going to serve to people and I forget that people don'twant three courses perhaps three times a day. You know, I'm can make this. I've got people so I can make this and after about two daysI'm like, no one wants eat anything else ever again because I've over hadthem. So I think I have to kind of rain myself in a go. Okay, well, we probably don't need really heavy, big meals,you know, every night over Christmas, and I don't need to buy startersand I don't need to buy pudding for everybody and yeah, things. SoI think there's there is that want or desire to kind of give people agood time and to kind of impress people or actually do it because it givesyou pleasure. You know, could gives me a lot of pleasure. ButI think as well, like one thing I've definitely honed up on this summeras being like using leftovers more wisely, freezing things, you know, creatingmeals from like cupboard that perhaps don't never have a recipe, should never bemade over again in rather than kind of making every meal and event. Yeah, and I also think as well we are moving, and more people aremoving from very heavy like meat and dairy over Christmas towards more plant based alternatives. I know there's a log there's a big debate around whether we just eatfake meat products or whether we don't eat me at all. Yeah, butI think, you know, we're planning loads and IDs of vegan recipes overChristmas and making vegetables that are the real heroes of Christmas and obviously they're somuch easier to then use up, to stop waste, to throw away.They come in less plastic. You know, there's so many more environmental benefits ofeating a plant based I other than just the nutrition and what's on yourplate. So I think people are starting to kind of shift away from thatvery traditional it's got to be Turkey, it's got to be Christmas pudding,it's got to be everything. Yeah, in a buffet, and I thinkthat's Eastry to see. There's a lot of creativity coming through with the recipes. I think we've prejom that mean there's so many incredible all vege around vegetablevegetable varieties around this time of year and also you just feel lighter. Youdon't want to have a nap at two o'clock every single day because you're eatingpastry and lots of meat and lots of cream and all of the trimmings.But in our family on Christmas Day we actually just have one big meal.We'll have a list, will have a sats humor from our stocking, ChrisBreakfast and maybe maybe a bit of chocolate. But then the main middle starts atall your clock and we just eat three courses, but over a very, very long period of time and actually means that we sit around the tableas a family for probably about six hours. But it just flies by because foodisn't really the it is about the food, but it's also about justdisting about the table. So yeah, it doesn't feel like you need tothen be like, Oh, when's the next meal? We just have afew little picky bits here and there, butter. Yeah. So I thinkthat's quite a nice way of making food be an extended part of it ratherthan lots and lots of rather than rather than the main of been so day. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, just haven't played one board game inbetween every course. You'll really that's the best thing about Christmas and buy it'sright. Well, ends a thing. Yeah, thing I do want todo as well, because this has been so topsy turvy and everyone's been athome and probably eating or throughout the year than they have done normally or snackedwhatever, whether we need to go into that over Christmas, because I fitto begin with I felt like the lockdown was kind of that weird bit betweenChristmas and New Year where you're kind of nothing's really working and it's all abit weird. So I kind of feel like, yes, Christmas is brilliantto get together and I'm really going forward...

...to I don't feel like I needthat like Slovenly bit. I feel like I've done quite lot of that thisyear. So I feel like it's way more about being outside and just enjoyingnot working rather than making it, because often at Christmas it's the first time, or one of the Times all year you get to really just be athome, yeah, and turn everything off, and obviously that is have been ourwhole year. So I think maybe it's more active Christmas this year forpeople I hate hopefully, I mean people must hoping Ding to be away somewherein the countryside and not actually have to cook, because I'm really sorry cooking. I wish you have that to us. I mean we've covered lots and lotsof points, but do you have any other advice or an experience howyour own Christmas that I've not shared? That that you think will help othersto maybe think about things a bit more consciously to how about you? Oneof the very best Christmas as I've ever heard was with my sister in Tasmania, whom she was living, where we worked at a homeless Shell to servingChristmas dinner to people. It was actually a really good experience, and sowe've been looking at whether something like that might happen in our local area,because I know that I would enjoy doing that and I actually really I guessit's just one of those things that we feel good doing it and then youknow you're benefiting other people as well. So and I hope more people areprepared to do things like this year, but that this year I feel thatthere is a much stronger community spirit around where I live now in a waythat there wasn't last year, and so I'm hoping that there's a lot morecommunity type activities that happen around Christmas. Georgina. How about you? I'mgoing to give U two slightly contradictory things, but they do kind of work.If you've every think ones that. Following on from Sue's I think youknow, at the start of lockdown we had always amazing. What's that groupspring up? A mutual aid groups and community groups, and I wonder howwe can use those over Christmas, like with sooth sayings, of with thewith the serving food and things, but also dropping gifts into neighbors and droppingcards in or making biscuits with people or just I think we're all going toneed a bit more community year this year, especially things go on the way they'vebeen going on for the last few weeks. So I think actually notforgetting that kind of coming togetherness that we had, you know, backings ofMay and June, and so if we re resurrecting that, we resurrect resurrectingmap for those and then also, I would say, on the flip side, though, don't let what other people are doing distract you from what youwant to do. You know, there's a lot of pressure to keep upwith the Joneses and I oh, they've got all decorations or so. Soit's going to do more presence. It's just about what you feel comfortable withand having those conversations with people around you and if you I feel like thisyear is one of the year where we can kind of go this is howI want to celebrate Christmas, and that's okay, you know. So Ithink it's about of actually sort of living those values that Christmas that perhaps embracedabout the rest of the year. Yeah, carrying it through and don't go wildjust because it's an exciting time of year, which it is exciting.We're pretty were not giving a sudvice it that everyone has a really purest,strict, non Christmas field with joy and love and all of these things.I can be still incredibly depting. It's just if you want to try andmake a few little changes that might make a big difference, then yeah,we've got some good ideas. And speaking of community, you we all soonand I are both going to be involved in Georgian's upcoming event, which isfuture and which I mean I let you speak about it, but we're very, very excited to be bird of it, which is virtual this year. Sotell us about each rest and why...

...you chosen November to host it.So we did for BIG PEBBLE FEST events last year in London in person,and sue has been a couple of them. Car we I think you might havebeen at the last time. I can't remember. Well, I hadanother event on the same day, but otherwise I was that's it. Andthe last one was the end of November last year and it was beautiful,like we had always twinkly lights. It was really Christmas ee and it's ahuge market and talks and workshops and it was so lovely to see our onlinecommunity come together offline and meet New People and just all celebrate together and encourageeach other to make sustainable choices and share information all these other amazing things.So obviously this year has been completely different and we really wanted to to notlose that and bring our community together, you know, and so open ourselvesup to a bigger community at the end of this year. The reason it'son the seventh and nights of November. It's called future first and originally itwas going to be a massive in person event around cop twenty six, whichwas due to be early November. Obviously it has been canceled or PUSS pushedback for a year. So that's why it's early November. And we weregoing to take over the Truman brewery in London and have like all these differentinstallations and activations and things go on. And in July we just had togo yet that's not going to happen. So we've pivoted on to an online, virtual, online, virtual festival again with talks, workshops, huge marketwhich you're both involved in, and we've got diy workshops around skincare, upcycling, mindset, change, vegan cooking with Tom Hunt from the Guardian,all sorts of different things. And then we've got nine of the world's biggestsustainable podcasters coming to record US exclusive episodes. Lily Cole's going to be in conversationalSaturday and we just confirmed a documentary that we're going to show the nightbefore for Free With Rain Dance Film Festival or of this Great Green Wall acrossAfrica. So we've got some amazing partners involved. I think we've got fortyfour market stands now. We've got about thirty speakers. There's a music stagewhere we'll plant trees for you dancing in your living room. We've even gotwine tasting, which I'm quite excited about wine. So yeah, it's areally it feels like a really good way to round off what has been apretty stressful year, bring people together. It's Christmas. Go without any Christmasin this so you don't need to worry about that. But you can doyour Christmas shopping, obviously, and all ticket holders get discounts across the market. So to help you do your shopping, yeah, including discount from blom ofbeauty and kind to it's you're going to be doing. I'm free beautyconsultations, so people can kind of find you and book in for Expert Advice. Yesterday, you can have a little video chat with me if you wantto make swaps your own beauty regime and maybe switched to organic products or naturalonly products and you want to try some plastic free him peoples, we canalso talk you through and or if you want to help, if you arenot, if you're a conscious Christmas Virgin, I'd say, and you want totry and find a gift for someone that is really sustainably minded and yourbit stuck, then we can also help you with that tea. So yeah, I'm really, really looking forward to it. I think it's going tobe an incredible event and I'm, you know, very privileged to be therealongside to see you as well, who we also represent. See. Whatare you looking forward to? You about the festival? Well, I'm wonderinghow I can actually attend some of the AL events as well as men mustend, and now that would be everywhere. So, because I'm really excited,I've had a good look through the people who are talking. I'm actuallygoing to be joining Andrea Fox on the age of plastic podcast for a smallsegment, so I might have a stand in person for me at least alittle look, few little bits. Well,...

I have really good news for you. All of the contents, all the talks, all the PODCASTS,all the workshops, not the networking, but that's the only thing. It'sgoing to be recorded and available for two weeks afterwards, so don't have tosit there for eight hours day watching it. Your ticket gets you all access toall the videos afterwards, so you can kind of catch up on demarklike you do a Netflix. Perfect can be in two places at once.It okay, that's go. Magic is actually have a bit of virtual winetasting as well, then definitely. Well, I can't think of a better wayto continue the start of our conversation and enjoy it a bit closer toChristmas, maybe do some Contra shopping and also learn more about how you canbe more consciously minded as well. So thank you and thanks for chatting today. If people want to get tickets, Georgina, do you want to justgive a little plug for your tickets when it's pepple feature firstcom for all thetickets and the tickets at seven pound fifty for all of the content. Allwe can do amazing, and you can of course find sue's products, whichare a great piller, either pebble first at we are kind to or kindto dot me, is your words. YEA, or, of course,apple will betcom as well. So thanks for chatting today and we'll see youagain very soon. Thanks for having me. It's been Veri now for the veryfestive yes, same. Thank you, Karen. Thank you. That's tosee. Bye, bye, bye. Thank you to sue and Georgina forsharing some incredible tips on how to spend more mindfully this Christmas. I'llcertainly be introducing sum to my own a Christmas this year and I can reallysee how mindful gifting can help to alleviate some of the feelings of stress oranxiety that are often associated with gifting at this time of year. I hopeyou've enjoyed the episode and are inspired to attend a pebble MAG's future fest onthe seventh and Eighth of November, but for all alerts on future episodes,make sure to rate and subscribe. Thanks for listening.

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